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Finding joy and having fun with content creation and storytelling with Guest Matthew Allyn

In this episode, Michelle interviews Matt Allyn, a content creator and storytelling expert. They discuss the overwhelming nature of the content game and how to find a content strategy that resonates with you. Matt shares his journey from engineering to content creation and emphasizes the importance of authenticity in connecting with your audience. They also explore the power of personal stories and the enjoyment that can come from the process of content creation. Ultimately, they encourage listeners to choose their own path and create content that aligns with their passions and values. In this conversation, Matt Allyn discusses the power of personal stories and how they can connect with others on a deep level. He emphasizes that everyone’s story matters and that it’s not about achieving grand success, but rather the universal themes and struggles we all experience. Matt encourages individuals to understand themselves on a deeper level and uncover their true purpose. He highlights the importance of taking action and boldly sharing one’s truth, while finding safety within oneself and reclaiming personal power. Matt also emphasizes the need for authentic content creation and the value of seeking guidance and support in the entrepreneurial journey.


  • Everyone’s story matters, and it’s not about achieving grand success, but rather the universal themes and struggles we all experience.
  • Understanding yourself on a deeper level and uncovering your true purpose is essential for personal growth and success.
  • Taking action and boldly sharing your truth is crucial for connecting with others and attracting your ideal audience.
  • Finding safety within yourself and reclaiming your personal power allows you to overcome fear and judgment.
  • Authentic content creation is key to building a genuine connection with your audience.
  • Seeking guidance and support from mentors and like-minded individuals can greatly enhance your entrepreneurial journey.
  • Marketing yourself should be a fun and enjoyable process, and it’s important to love the journey of self-discovery and growth.

About our Guest:

Matt Allyn helps those who love what they do connect deeper with themselves and their audience by uncovering their stories and sharing them effectively in their content.

He has helped over 100 online coaches gain clarity in their message and stand out online by speaking their truth and stepping into their power.

Matt is also the co-other of the best selling book Heart Centered Leadership.

Subscribe to Matt’s Newsletter: Https:// 

Enjoy his Free course “Make Beautiful Content” : Https://

Connect on IG:


Michelle (00:00.765)

Hey everybody, welcome back to the real truth about business. I am so excited for today's episode. I have an amazing, amazing guest who I'm sure this episode could go on and on and on for over an hour just because he's such a fun guy to chat with. And he has so many fun things to say. Um, but we're going to try to do our absolute best and keep it as short and sweet and to the point as we absolutely can, but I am.

Honored to be here today with Matt Allen and Matt and I met through a mutual networking group, Jillian Murphy's networking group. We met on her free weekly Wednesday call. So if you've not been there, it's obviously an amazing place to meet great people. We had a coffee chat. I've been following his content. I'm on his email list and we've just been chatting back and forth on Instagram a few times and I just really am super excited to have him.

on the podcast today talking all things content and storytelling. But I think you're really, really going to love his approach to content because I know all of you are feeling a little overwhelmed with the content game, so I'm really, really excited to have you here today, Matt. Welcome, welcome. Um, tell us a little bit more about you and who we are and what you do.

Matt Allyn (01:14.782)

Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. And I'm always excited to have this conversation because yeah, I believe content creation is the number one personal growth tool. You know, we all know what it feels like to try to show up our most authentic self. And it's not that easy. And it's not that easy to say what you truly want to say for fear of being canceled or what your brother's gonna think about you and all this stuff. So that's an opportunity to start working through that thing through whatever that is, whatever that might that thing that might come up for you is and

We don't work through it by thinking about it and thinking what it will be like to post and say this stuff. We work through it by saying it and then seeing what happens, seeing if we get haters or if we get canceled or if we get comments, if people not agreeing with our statement, then how do we show up and then handle those comments? Or if we get no, nobody likes, we get two likes on a reel, how do we proceed after that? Who are we when that happens? And so, yeah, I think that's like the first.

I like to make is like this is our opportunity to step into that powerful version of ourselves and then in that way we get to build deeper connections with our audience and grow our business and all that beautiful stuff and so That's not exactly who I am, which is what you asked, but that's why I went

Michelle (02:27.849)

That's okay. Yeah, no, I love it. And I think that what I love too is that you are very authentic and you just create this storytelling. So when we had a conversation we were chatting about content and I was talking about how, you know...

A lot of my clients are feeling stuck and they are sick of the content rat race and they're sick of trying to create and figure out like all the best trending things and what's the next best trend and all of this and your approach really what you teach and what you really are encouraging everybody to do really doesn't have a lot to do with trends at all really, right?

Matt Allyn (03:03.466)

Yeah, I mean, I think here's the way I like to look at it. Let's take like a, what's going on Instagram right now. There's these six second videos, roughly, of you, of B-roll, of you like doing something, or it could even be a sunset. And then you write a hook and then you say, read caption. And the goal is that those videos go on loop while someone's reading the caption, it gets you more views. It's also highly valuable, so people might bookmark it or share it. And that is something you can do, if I think, if that's something that's super energizing for you.

Michelle (03:19.901)


Matt Allyn (03:33.098)

And so I think what people are after is like, okay, so now this is the strategy. This is what is on Instagram people are doing. So now I have to do this thing. And you obviously don't have to do anything. So my thing is like, we're trying to find the balance of like, am I not good at this yet or is this just hard? And if it's just hard, sorry, that's the thing. Am I not good at this and it's hard or do I really not like this? That's really what you're trying to decipher. And it's likely you don't know what you don't like until you actually do it for a little while.

So maybe this style of content could be an opportunity for you to like learn how to write better. Cause if it's all about read the caption, well then you need to write well for people to actually get the value out of that. So it could be an opportunity for you to write well, but maybe you just have never written. So it's difficult for you to write, but you're like, I know a lot of my world, my people are like spiritual. So it's like, this doesn't feel good and I want to do what feels good. It's like, you don't even know because you're not good at it, right? Imagine.

Michelle (04:28.093)


Matt Allyn (04:29.11)

kind of ride a bike and you're like, you fall over once you're like, this doesn't feel good for me. It's like, no, you don't know how to ride a bike. You just need to learn how to ride the bike first. And then you see if that's something you love. And so, so that's one part of it is like, give yourself the opportunity to even figure out if you're any good at this thing. Um, and I think everyone can find an avenue of content that they love. And so if we stick on this six second trending real thing, if you're finding yourself, you've made, you know,

five a week for three months. It's probably a good amount of time to see if you're, if you actually enjoy it. Um, but the whole process sucks, right? You're like, I hate trying to find a trending audio. I've been doing it for three months. It's not fun. Like it feels so sticky. It feels like all my hooks are really like salesy or like I'm, I'm trying to like trick people. And if the whole process is now feeling really energetically draining, like then that would

be like, okay, then this is not the avenue for you. Now you've really identified, you've moved past the point where it's not hard anymore. Right, it's flowing easier, but there's still like stickiness to it, and it's annoying, then it's like, okay, now we can identify like this isn't the place for you. Maybe we try another avenue, maybe that's, you get the 90 seconds to just talk to the camera, right? Let's see if that is something that's more energizing for you. And so that's what I really want for people is like.

Michelle (05:45.417)


Matt Allyn (05:50.222)

Can we find the avenue that's super energizing? Because we're entrepreneurs and we have to market ourselves. So what way of marketing ourselves brings us the most energy? And then you could start to like, yeah, then we can start playing with hooks. Like that's still important. The marketing strategies, like those are still important things to know and learn. But a lot of people aren't even there yet. And a lot of my clients, I'm like, don't worry about it. Just speak, just learn how to say what you want to say without trying to like...

Michelle (06:15.685)

start. Yeah.

Matt Allyn (06:19.362)

do the 10% of work, which is like figuring out the hooks or a call to action, all that stuff.

Michelle (06:25.445)

Yeah, I mean, I think that's such a key point for anybody, you know, as you're listening, and I always try to point out the key points here is that, and we've talked about this a lot on the business strategy side too, is that every strategy works, right? Like I always say, there's a guru out there that can prove every strategy works. So the six seconds strategy works, the talking head photos work, the carousel pose work, right? Like long form content, short form, like every strategy works.

But what doesn't work is when something doesn't feel right and you don't enjoy it and you can't stay consistent with it. Because if at the end of the day you hate it and it's like Matt is saying, not energizing you and it's actually draining you, it's never going to work because anything that drains our energy is not going to get our a hundred percent energy. We can't, we can't put into it a hundred percent and your audience is going to recognize that.

right? And so if you're feeling like that right now, think about that. Like really think about, are you trying to stick with a trend or stick with something that a strategist somebody told you is the next best strategy and you're doing it, but just enough to check the boxes. Right? And I think that's what I always, that's what

drew me to bring that on the podcast too, especially was that it's not about just checking the boxes. It's not about just saying like, okay, I created this reel today or okay, I did all these things. Like it's about finding that strategy that really helps you show up in a way that is so energizing and draws people into you and your story and what you have to say as well as your expertise. So I love that. And I love that you, you talk about

creating that, but do you mind sharing a little bit about how you got into this and like your journey and what you were doing? Because you were an engineer, which has nothing, right? Like weren't you in the engineering field, which is so not content creation, which is so not like being in the flow. Engineers are very black and white. It's this or that. It doesn't, there's really not a lot of gray area. So how did you make that transition?

Matt Allyn (08:31.318)

Yeah, there's kind of two pieces of the story. And one is I've almost kind of uncovered more recently. So I'd be excited to share that, but there's this like my life purpose and what I'm doing. And then there's like the business side of things. And so the life thing was, you know, I grew up in Connecticut and the goal is like a lot of people in learning from our parents is to, you know, go to go to college, get the degree and.

And for me, it was always math. Like, and I was always so good at math. And so when I got to college, um, it was math was my thing and I was in business. And I was like, I don't really like business. I called my mom and she's like, why don't you try engineering? I went to Manhattan college. She's like, that's an engineering school. Um, and so, and you love mass or you're good at math. So I wanted to do that. So I switched majors and, and this is like, Ooh, the next even better. Like I could be an engineer, you know? So I graduated with that. Um,

and was an engineer in New York City for five total years. But three years into that, I found myself in a point just not loving life. And I'll never forget, I had this great project. I was working on the World Trade Center, the Freedom Tower. And the area around it too, and the memorial for the trade centers, and the Oculus, which is the transportation hub. It's a $4 billion project.

And this is my project and I'm like, this is the 25 years old. This is kind of the dream for a civil engineer and greatest city in the world. Greatest project ever. And I'm doing what's called change orders, some of this paperwork stuff. And, uh, I've got stacks of mental envelopes on my desk. You know, I'm sitting at this desk, which is six foot high, a cubicle, you know, I'm just kind of locked in under the fluorescent lights and I ripped through this work.

Michelle (10:01.239)

I know.

Michelle (10:19.946)


Matt Allyn (10:23.574)

within the first four hours of the day, I bring the stack of papers to my boss who reviews them. I walk into his office, which is the corner office, and it's on the 14th floor, so it actually looks over the World Trade Center and our project. And I walk in, leave those stack of papers on his desk. He can barely even look at me, he's just like, thank you. And I just kind of paused and I looked out the window at the project and I'm like, I just don't care. I just don't care about, like, this is a beautiful project.

You know, a project that symbolizes that America will not be fucked with, you know? And we're rebuilding this giant building to say like, Hey, we're putting it right next to the buildings that these terrorists burned down. Like it's, it's an incredible project for the entire country. And I'm like, I just don't really care. It's just an office building that people are going to work in and, you know, mosey through the, through their life, just kind of like I'm doing. And I go back to my desk and then I'll spend the rest of the day looking up stuff that I'm actually interested in. Reach out the time.

Michelle (10:59.003)


Matt Allyn (11:24.666)

was cycling and fitness as well. But cycling became a thing that I started biking to work and falling in love with. And I don't fully remember where the moment came from, but it was basically like, I can see this future for myself. I can see 25, I can see the next 40 years until I'm 65 and can retire, 40 years of not really loving work and talking to my grandkids and being like, you know, grandpa, tell us what you did.

you know, tell some stories. I'm like, I don't really have any. I just kind of like, didn't pursue my dreams. And that kind of scared me. And so I was like, I need to do something remarkable with my life. And that ended up being, I'm gonna ride my bike across America. And so in 2016, um, 26 years old, I rode my bike across America, 90 days, 5,000 miles, it changed my life. I, I can talk a lot about that, but

The big thing was when I got to the end of it, I was like, this was the best summer of my life. Every day was amazing. Even the worst day on this bike trip, which was rainy and freezing cold. I remember thinking this is better than being behind the computer. And so I'm like, I can't go back to be an engineer and just like, you know, thank God for Fridays and have Sunday scaries and Monday blues. Like I have to find something that I really love every single day that I'm excited to wake up for just like I was throughout this bike trip. And.

Michelle (12:20.019)


Michelle (12:29.225)

It was better.

Matt Allyn (12:49.526)

That doesn't mean it wasn't hard. The bikes, there were a lot of hard days on the bike trip, but I was still loving, you know, the process of it. And so that's, that was really the change of everything where I got back. I did keep being an engineer for a little while, but it was like trying to uncover, what do I love? You know, what can this thing be? Cause I wasn't making money riding my bike across America either. So I had to find a way to make money, but a way that I loved it. And that really began the start of where I'm finding photography, reigniting my love for fitness.

And eventually in 2018, quitting engineering, moving to Colorado, pursuing fitness. And now over the last five years of that, here we are as someone who helps people with content and marketing and speaking their truth. And that's really the work side of things. I'll say the other second part, which I'll keep a little bit shorter, but it's basically like my whole life I've been a follower. My whole life I feel like I've been like, looking at what the popular kids do. You know, are we wearing jeans? How do we wear our hair? You know, I was just in the middle of the road.

Michelle (13:31.422)


Matt Allyn (13:48.29)

You know, not a loser, but not the popular guy, not straight A's, not D's, um, not the best in sports, but pretty good. And just this follower and that bike trip was really the thing where like, Oh, this is what I want to do with, like, this is something that I'm choosing. You know, even being a Mets fan and a Packers fan, which I love, but my dad's a Packer fan and a Mets fan. So, you know, I followed in his footsteps. And so it's like all a lot of life just following, following. And now it was like.

Michelle (14:13.745)


Matt Allyn (14:18.07)

This bike trip is something I chose for myself, leaving corporate and removing myself from that mold of climbing the corporate ladder was something I chose for myself and so it's really taking back this ownership and then that's kind of where now we get back to content marketing, which is like, I want you to do the same, I don't want you there, like successfully leaves and that's great. And you can take inspiration from your other entrepreneurs that you love, but

Michelle (14:22.546)


Matt Allyn (14:44.278)

We just feel like now we're copying other people in our marketing. We're saying what everyone else is saying. We're afraid to say what we really wanna say and what we wanna stand for and show up as. And so I'm sharing all of this and I know this was long, but to say like my deeper purpose is like, I don't want you to have regrets in life. And the vehicle of learning how to take back your power is content. If you can say what you want and say what you mean to potentially millions of people, then you can do that.

and so many other areas of your life.

Michelle (15:16.901)

Yeah, absolutely. No, I love this story and I thank you for sharing it and so, you know, deeply too, because well, first of all, my husband's a Mets fan too. Like he's always like, there's no Mets fans. Everybody's a Yankees fan, but no, my husband is a huge Mets fan, has been his whole life. Um, but, you know, I think there's, there's so much power in that in saying like, I think the reason why a lot of people are feeling burnt out by content too is because it does feel boring.

Matt Allyn (15:25.998)

I'm out.

Michelle (15:43.413)

It feels like the same thing. Everybody's saying the same thing and we're all doing the same. It has become, or it got to be that place where it was really not everybody as an individual. It was, oh, I think I need to do this so this is how I'm going to show up. And that is very boring for most people. And so I think the reason why people are spending less and less time on social media, I built my business on social media.

for the first four years social media was the BLN. I mean, it's how I met everybody. And I still think it's such a massively powerful tool for growth and your best friends, like my very best friend right now, I met on social media, right? Like through business and through content and just seeing her stuff. And so there's still so much power in that, but it got boring because we became followers, like you're saying, like it just, everybody is pop.

copulating the same content, saying the same exact thing. Like, oh, it looks like they did really well with that. Maybe I should create that same piece of content. And it's almost even like word for word, it's like, didn't I just read this from somebody else? And so I think getting back to that, I love that you're teaching that because there's still, I mean, there's a time and a place for, you know, here's best practices. We all have it, business is business, marketing is marketing. There's always gonna be best practices.

But at the end of the day, showing up as your authentic self, I recently had this realization also in a Hypno breathwork session. It was, you know, I was going through it and I kind of had that same realization of like, why, why are you feeling so burnt out? Why are you feeling so annoyed by this? Why? And it's like, because this is not me. This is not how I show up. My content, this is not what I want to do. And so I kind of have just switched that and really kind of

Matt Allyn (17:26.23)


Michelle (17:34.741)

created, I have another client and friend, she calls it like the fuck it strategy. It's like, just fuck it. Like it doesn't matter. Just show up. You know what I mean? And you get to say whatever you want. And I've actually gotten so much more engagement and so much more response is like, Michelle, I'm loving your content lately. Wow. That really is resonating. And that's the thing is like, there's nothing trending about it. There's, I don't, I have no idea how to use Instagram. I'm just trying to figure it out. You know what I mean? Like you're just, I'm just doing my thing and showing up.

in a way that feels authentic, and it's resonating so much better. And I think that's the lesson there, is like doing, when you show up as yourself, it resonates better. People love to connect with humans, not robots.

Matt Allyn (18:17.758)

Yeah, this is such a fun conversation and I'll give you the inside sneak peek because I was looking at my content Over 2023 and I posted, uh, I think it was 340 times this year on instagram on my instagram feed um The first thing is like what you were started with which is like we love what we do And I work with a lot of online coaches, especially so it's like we're online coaches or we're coaches We help people and we love it and then when we're like with our friends

We're talking about the thing that we love, you know, if it's like yoga, we're talking about like how great yoga is or breath work and you know, we're always talking about this thing but then all of a sudden we get on social media and it's like, ah, I hate talking about this. It's like, where, how did we get so disconnected between you do this business because you love it and now you're trying to market it and you hate that part. It's like, it's just talking about what you love, you know, you're doing it all day over here. And I hate that that, I just think it's sad that it's so disconnected.

Michelle (18:54.286)


Matt Allyn (19:16.786)

And so I was preparing for my next newsletter, which was like a review of all my content. Um, the best quote unquote, the best content, because the best isn't necessarily the likes. And the way I look at content is like, I have stuff that I never really went viral this year, but you know, stuff that has like five, six, 700 likes. But the way I look at it is that first of all, it's not just likes. I look at shares, uh, comments and saves and.

You can go in the back and look at who followed you from a real, but it doesn't really tell the whole story. But anyway, I'm looking at all of these things, but even likes or any of these metrics, if I get 20 saves on a real that got a thousand views and then I got 20 saves on a real that got 10,000 views, like that's not as good, obviously, because 10X people saw it, but the same amount saved it. So when I'm looking at something like, oh, this one got 600 likes and it's like, yeah, 20,000 people saw it. Like.

Michelle (20:02.51)


Matt Allyn (20:12.202)

What about this one that got 800 views, but got 100 likes? You know, like if Instagram just showed it to more people, probably would have gotten more likes. I'm not in control of the algorithm and who gets to see this stuff. So I really liked to look at the ratio. And so that's just a little background because yes, there were a lot of six sec, actually, I don't even think that's true. If I really looked at the data, a lot of my six second trendy things were not the most liked or even by the ratio of likes, were not the most engaged with. Everything.

Michelle (20:17.781)


Matt Allyn (20:42.474)

that did quote unquote the best was over 70 seconds long, over a minute long, right? Even 70 seconds and was a story and was a unique perspective. And it wasn't me being like, there were some that did okay, like six ways to tell a better story, right? Read caption, those did fine. But it was when I told a story about, I'm trying to remember like why I still play baseball at 33 years old or the weekend that I had no self-service and how...

fucking anxious I was because I couldn't be on social media or in touch with the world, you know, and I shared what that experience was like. And then that's what gets the most comments and the most engagement and DM conversations like this resonated so much. And when we look at a business perspective of getting our clients, it's so emotionally driven. You know, we could like, even you and even your listeners of this podcast, like you're not the best at what you do.

Michelle (21:15.735)

goes incredibly.

Michelle (21:35.898)

Mm-hmm, it is.

Matt Allyn (21:41.878)

the absolute number one, I want you to think you are, but you're not the best. And that's not why we buy shit. The thing you just bought yesterday, whatever that might've been, all this Christmas shopping you're doing, or if you bought something for yourself, it's probably not the best thing, right? Like I'm a big trail runner, and there are better trail running shoes than Nike's trail running shoes, but I love Nike, right? I read Phil Knight's book, Shoe Dog. It's my favorite entrepreneurial story. It gives me chills at the end when I read about it.

Michelle (21:47.73)


Michelle (21:57.502)


Matt Allyn (22:11.626)

And he tells us, and he like wraps up the story so beautifully. And I'm like, this is what it means to put on this Nike swoosh. And there are, I know there are better shoes for me. There are better trail running shoes and wider toe boxes, which is healthier for my feet. I know all this stuff. Don't care. I want the Nike shoe. And this is how we make purchasing decisions. So, and then when you think, so you think about this with like your best friend or your partner. When you think about your best friend, right? There's a moment when you're like maybe driving home one day or you're texting them.

Michelle (22:18.858)


Michelle (22:34.549)


Matt Allyn (22:40.494)

And all of a sudden you're like, you know, I think, I think Michelle's my best friend, right? They went from stranger to friend to now best friend. And you just, it's just like love too, right? Go watch a Hallmark movie. How do you know you're in love? You just know. And that's exactly what we want from our followers. When somebody is like, oh, I need help with this thing. I need help with my marketing. I want them to be like, I gotta talk to Matt Allen. And how does that gut feeling transpire? We don't make a list of like, well,

He's helped this many people. And we don't like make this checklist of why this person's perfect or why my best friend's my best friend. We just know we have a gut feeling. And so what I love to help people with is like, yes, you can, you wanna be, show that you're an expert in the thing. That's why people are buying the thing from you. We buy things because they solve problems. But the other piece of this is that people buy from this gut feeling, this emotional feeling. And so we go back to dating.

Michelle (23:16.361)


Michelle (23:26.549)


Michelle (23:35.145)


Matt Allyn (23:36.77)

You're not gonna get a third date if I just sit there, especially with my girlfriend now. If I just talked about content for even one date, let alone two or three, I'm never getting a fourth or sixth date. We're never gonna get an opportunity to fall in love. So what do we do? We talk about my older brother and growing up in Connecticut and my favorite music and my sports and a passion for running. Tell you all these things and this gives the person I'm dating an opportunity to fall in love with me.

Michelle (23:44.049)

or yourself, yeah. Yeah.

Matt Allyn (24:05.238)

And I think that's what we're trying to do on social media. We're giving people an opportunity to fall in love with us. And they're not gonna fall in love with you. You just be like, three ways to tell a better story. Three ways to market yourself. Here are 15 great hooks. That's not really the thing. And so the part of this is like, this is how you actually get people to fall in love with you and wanna hire you from this emotional feeling. But what I love even better is that this is what makes content fun.

Michelle (24:05.95)


Michelle (24:30.357)


Matt Allyn (24:35.022)

Cause I get to talk about trail running and I can relate trail running marketing if I want. I get to talk about Christmas, cause I love Christmas and relate that to marketing if I want to. You know, this is where it starts to be fun. But it's like, no, you know, Alex Ramosi is not talking about Christmas. I shouldn't. Like actually, if you're really understanding it, sorry, I'm on a big tangent, but like if you really look at it, what does Ramosi do? And you see him repost this stuff. Here's how I gamed the IHOP menu.

Here's how I gained the Chipotle menu. I stole this tactic from Eminem, which is a sales tactic of saying all the bad stuff. Here's what I can't do, which is what Eminem does at the end of a mile and says all the bad stuff about himself. And so actually when you do watch from Mozi's stuff, it is about him. He talks about lifting. Here's why people, I have these massive calves. He tells his story and I'm like, that's where it gets to be fun. And so...

Michelle (25:11.145)


Michelle (25:27.44)


Michelle (25:33.054)


Matt Allyn (25:33.342)

It's not looking at the mozi stuff and going, oh, he talked about gaming the IHOP menu, like, you know, how do I, you know, game the Starbucks menu? It's like, no, no. You just talk about the stuff you already know, the stuff you already love. So I would talk about my experience with trail running, you know? And so this is where we find this, like where we get to talk about this stuff we already love. And then that gives people an opportunity to fall in love with us. And those get to be our favorite best clients. And it makes the buying decision really

Michelle (26:02.121)


a lot. Yeah, absolutely. One of your, when you were talking about your content and the ones that did the best, I would say probably one of the pieces of content that continues to stand out for me that I've seen of yours was your dear Colorado letter that you wrote. Like I felt like that was such a powerful, powerful.

Matt Allyn (26:19.186)


Michelle (26:23.633)

piece of content in so many ways. And I know that it got a lot of shares and it got a lot of likes. And I was, I was watching it for a while there and it still resonates with me. And I actually, it actually inspired me to have the members of my Focus Visionary Mastermind, which is my business planning program, write like a letter to 2023, like, dear 2023, like, here's what it did. And I

Michelle (26:52.781)

ways that you really are connecting. That was so emotional and it was so deep and it was so personal. And quite honestly, it had very little to do with business, but it inspired somebody else to take action. It inspired a business, inspired me to encourage other people to do those things. Those are the things that are like, oh, wow.

Yeah, we could do that. And that was easy. And that was such a great idea. And it is related to what you do and writing and sharing and sharing your story and inspiring other people to either share their letter to 2023 or not. And so if you're listening, I'll make sure that we definitely put the link to that reel in the in the show notes, because it was really, really powerful. That was another part of your story recently as you moved from Colorado to Bend, Oregon.

And anyways, that's probably a whole nother, that could be a whole nother podcast episode, but that type of content, right? Like I don't know. I can't think of a single piece of content that I've, I can't remember a single piece of content of yours that has anything to do with like

being a content creator, right? Like I can't think of a single piece that resonates with me that I'm still thinking about that I'm still reminded of that has anything to do with like, here's five ways or six hooks or this or whatever. Like it has nothing to do with it, but that piece of content, I'm still thinking about it. I was actually just thinking about it last night as I was, and you did that several months or at least a couple of weeks ago, right? It was at least about a month ago, I think at time of recording now. So.

Matt Allyn (28:18.094)

Yeah, better than a month ago, yeah.

Michelle (28:20.033)

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, so that's what I'm saying. Like it's still top of mind for me and you're still top of mind. You're still on my mind when I think of those things and it has nothing to do with you teaching me how to write better content.

Matt Allyn (28:33.206)

Yeah, so I thank you for sharing that. That came from this and our girl, Julia Murphy, Be Her Now. Like this is why I say content creation is the number one growth tool because you get to become the person that you so badly wanna be. And so that piece of content wasn't for content. That was something that I wanted to do to build a deeper connection with my girlfriend. And

Michelle (28:43.529)


Matt Allyn (29:02.294)

to actually like literally we went out in the woods and she wrote her letter. I wrote mine and then we read it to each other because I wanted to build deeper connection. I also just wanted to like thank Colorado for what it did for me over these last five years. It's like quit, quit engineering, left New York to pursue entrepreneurship. So Colorado is the start of the entrepreneurship journey for me. And the whole, my God has a lot happened. And you know, the things I didn't mention, which is like getting divorced, you know, giving up her dog and giving that dog to her. Like.

these other really big moments that happened even through that journey. And, um, and, and so for me, that was like, and that also, that idea came from a podcast interview I did on my podcast with a guy who teaches somatics and healing, and I have been trying to release the need to be in the DMS and DM 10 people a day to like grow my business. And he was like, well, he's like, the DMS got you here. The DMS grew you an amazing business.

And what you have not allowed yourself to do is to thank the DM process for getting you here. Like hold a little ceremony for it and say thank you DMs, I love you so much, you've done so much good for me and also goodbye. I don't need you anymore, I'm gonna move on to something else. I was like, damn, I feel like that's what I've been needing because I've been struggling letting go of this DM process and shaming myself and being like, you should DM this, everything would be easier if you just did that.

Michelle (30:00.916)

Uh huh.

Michelle (30:18.255)


Matt Allyn (30:24.614)

And so I got that idea from him to like, oh, I should do this with Colorado. I should say thank you and say goodbye and all of that stuff and kind of like greeted and do that. So, and like I said, to build a deeper connection with my partner of like, Hey, let's do this together. You know, we could both say goodbye to Colorado. Um, she had been there for four years. And, and then I was like, you know, I would love to share this with my audience. Um, because they've been along with me on this journey, you know? And yes, and sure there, you know, we could go into like the, the whole point that like.

Michelle (30:30.783)


Michelle (30:49.897)


Matt Allyn (30:54.558)

It was a story and all the underlying tones that are there, which is like building the brand, you know, I'm a spiritual person. Um, so in there, there's like a lot of spiritual under, like even doing this saying dear, what person writes a letter to Colorado, right? Like a more spiritual person. And so I'm showing all of me in inside of that piece of content. And, and that's where I'm like, it got, it got to be so fun because also I've been a photographer and a videographer. So.

Michelle (31:11.823)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Matt Allyn (31:23.774)

I got to set up my fancy camera for that and my lapel mic and stand up on top of a hill overlooking Breckenridge Colorado Mountain. And while it was, I think it might have been lightly snowing, maybe it wasn't snowing anymore in the video. But like I just, the whole thing was so fun for me. It was fun to even like I rewrote it because what I read to my girlfriend was like probably five minutes. And so I'm like, I don't want to put a five minute video. There's some stuff that I don't really want to share with everybody.

Michelle (31:32.909)


Matt Allyn (31:50.55)

Um, so I rewrote it and for me writing is fun and kind of wording things to make it a little more impactful. The whole process was so fun for me. And that's kind of the point. I've been go back to the beginning when I said about the trendy six second stuff. If the process is fun for you and hunting down trending audios and thinking of a really great hook, like if that's fun, then yes, awesome. Make those six second videos. But if, like I said, if you do those three months and you hate it, then don't do that. Right. You made a great point. James Clear.

Michelle (32:13.703)


Michelle (32:17.758)


Matt Allyn (32:20.314)

only post texts, posts, right? The holistic psychologist, she's got like 8 million followers, she only posts carousels, right? Maybe she's got like one video of, you know, every three months. And of course LinkedIn, there's newsletter strategies, there's podcasting, like you don't have to do it this way. You can do it how you want to. And part of that is uncovering it. And so for me, like knowing that like, I love to tell a story, I am more than happy to get vulnerable because I love the practice of like,

I don't say this in an authentic way, but like, I love being in that moment of like, when you think of an actor, would you want to see an actor who's not acting and is sad because their movie dad died? But you would watch movie like they're being an authentic because they're crying, but that's not really their dad is like, no, we love watching movies and we love good actors. And so it's not to say that I'm acting necessarily, but like when I'm reading Dear Colorado, or when I talk about my bike trip.

I'm not breezing over it like it's just something to say. I'm in the moment again. I am thanking Colorado. I'm going over the last five years in my mind and I'm getting emotional about it because it means something to me. And so part of that comes with like, you see even now as my voice gets a little softer and slowing down a little bit and being intentional because I can start to feel the emotion and it means something to me. So I get an opportunity to share that with you and not just like.

Michelle (33:44.003)

and then

Matt Allyn (33:48.674)

goodbye Colorado, this was fun. It was really tough, but also really rewarding. And okay, see you later, I'm off to bend. Like, no, like we need to be with the moment. And so the whole process of this for me is so fun. And that's why I think something like that for you has stood out probably for others. And yes, got a lot of likes and so many comments is because it was so fucking real. It was so 100% me.

And I can, and I struggle with this and I could still see where I post content that 90% me or you know what, that was like 99% I'm trying to go viral right now and guess why didn't go viral, you know, um, because the energy behind it. And, and so like, so this will just go back to we are making content or we're marketing ourselves because we want to grow our business, we want more money. Right. We want to help more people, but why.

Michelle (34:26.513)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Matt Allyn (34:44.406)

At the end of the day, more money is gonna give you what? More freedom so that, I don't know, do you wanna travel more? Well then what does traveling get you? What is being in Paris, you know, in the Louvre, seeing beautiful art, what does that do for you? We're always chasing this feeling, this beautiful, wonderful feeling at the end of the day. What our goal gets us, it makes us feel, you know, more love, excited, like joyful, whatever that feeling is for you. My practice is how can I...

Michelle (34:54.142)


Michelle (35:00.699)


Matt Allyn (35:13.478)

how can I experience this feeling right now? And so that's when I set up the camera, me setting up the camera, climbing up the hill to film this Dear Colorado video. I'm having fun in that moment. So I don't need the real to get whatever it got, 250 likes and like 90 comments. I don't need that to happen. We want all that, then we will feel good. And then we will get clients and then we will feel better. It's like, no, I feel fucking amazing right now.

Michelle (35:16.713)


Michelle (35:35.943)

and then

Matt Allyn (35:42.862)

I feel amazing climbing this hill. I feel amazing reading from my journal and speaking this. And I'm so excited to share it. I love the process. So I don't need the money. Now I know money's great and I don't wanna shame people for not wanting money either. You are free to want whatever you want. You know? And so it's just a relationship with that thing. And even for me, I shame myself of like, is it bad that I love sharing my stories on content? Like on social, like, isn't it just enough?

Michelle (35:54.865)

Right, right. Yeah.

Matt Allyn (36:11.446)

for me to write the story in my journal and be happy. It's like, no, I love sharing it. And that gets to be okay. That gets to be awesome that I want to share it with people. It's only until I start shaming myself for wanting those things.

Michelle (36:18.101)


Michelle (36:21.93)


Michelle (36:26.181)

yeah and you know if you're hearing all this story right now and you're thinking oh my god i could never like set up a camera and do this and i don't have a you know what i mean like that's not the point of what is what matt is saying right now and i think that is where most people get wrapped up and i really want you to hear what he is saying is that the reason he did that was because that is what is fun for him

Right? He enjoyed that. You could do this through a podcast. You could, you know what I mean? Like he could have read that letter through a podcast with absolutely no video. He could have just wrote it in an email, put it out as a newsletter, maybe done it. Is it right? Like content does not have to be video, but his background and what he loves is photography and videography and climbing. You know what I mean? Doing all of these.

you know, climbing a mountain and being in the cold. Like none of that sounds fun to me, right? Like you are never going to catch me doing that. But the point is, is that it had nothing to do with honestly, like anything that when I talked about the Dear Colorado letter, I talked about the vulnerability of it. I talked about how powerful the exercise was. I talked about how it resonated with me. You didn't hear me comment one thing.

about the videography, about the captions, about the background, about how beautiful, right? Like there was nothing about that. And so be very mindful in what you're hearing right now. That's what's most important. What I want you to hear is that it was powerful. It was vulnerable. It was something he enjoyed doing and you get to choose what that looks like for you. You get to choose what that looks like for your business, for your audience. Okay. And then

really understand and hear the feedback that people are giving you when it comes to your content creation. Right? I'm sure there's somebody else that watched that reel and loved the videography of it. Right? But that's not what resonated for me. And so everybody's going to resonate with something different, but ultimately Matt didn't do it for any of those reasons. He did that because he felt compelled and really wanted to share this reel. Right? And he wanted to do it in that way.

Michelle (38:39.461)

And that is the lesson that you really need to take from this. And that's what I love about what Matt teaches and how he helps people and how he helps people in the content creation is that it's about looking at what is it that you want to do, how vulnerable do you want to get? What stories do you want to share? So Matt, let's wrap it up. I know we could keep talking, like I said, at the beginning of this episode, we could, we could really keep talking for quite a while because I love, I love this conversation, you and I feel so very similar in this way, but how do you.

work with people. Like what does it look like to work with you? You have a new group program that you're running right now. And so for somebody that says like, I don't feel like I have any stories to share or I don't like getting that personal or I don't know how to even share those stories or I don't like to write. Like how would your program or how do you work with people that feel that way or that are coming to you in that, with that mindset in the beginning?

Matt Allyn (39:38.142)

Yeah, well, I mean, if you... Everyone's story matters. And I think what people miss is that it's not having the thing that actually people care about. Like we think I need to be making a million dollars in my business for any of this to matter. But when we watch any movie, when we hear any story, you know, like I always give Lion King as the example, it's not because Simba is standing on the rock at the end.

Michelle (39:44.71)


Matt Allyn (40:07.442)

and now he's king of the jungle. That's not why we love the movie. We love the movie because his dad died and he had this moment where he didn't think he could possibly be capable of what he was meant to become, whether that's his parents wishes for him or his own, he didn't think he could do it, especially without his dad there. And so then he gets bullied and chased by hyenas.

You know, which is not our story. None of us are getting bullied by hyenas. And then he meets two friends who sing him Hakuna Matata, a meerkat and a warthog sing him Hakuna Matata and support him on his journey. And they have that little like time-lapse where he's getting bigger and growing. None of our friends are meerkats and warthogs, right? And our friends didn't sing us Hakuna Matata, but we all know what it's like to have friends to lean on.

Michelle (40:55.413)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Matt Allyn (41:07.202)

when times are tough and who can tell you the right thing. Right, but it's not a kuna matata. It might be, but for most of us it's not. And we all don't have a baboon as a mentor. We don't have a little bird chirping in our ear, you know, but we have, we all have in our voice saying, don't do this, don't do that, it's too scary. Right? Our mentor didn't rub coconut juice on our head, but we know what it's like to have someone who we look to as a leader who can support us. That's what we connect to in the story.

And that's universal, all these little pieces. And even when you were a kid, you didn't resonate with, you know, a lot of this stuff, but maybe you resonated with having best friends, maybe you resonated with the little love story, and you were a 10 year old and you had a crush on a girl, but you couldn't tell anyone because you're not supposed to like girls, right? And then now you're an adult and you watch Lion King and you resonate with because you just lost your father and how hard it's been and how you just kind of want to give up. And so we've, Lion King's a great example because it kind of covers like everything we can go through in life.

Michelle (41:51.605)


Michelle (42:04.286)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's...

Matt Allyn (42:06.274)

That's what people are gonna pick up from your story. It's not because you, and that does make a great story, overcoming and making the million dollar, or being king of the jungle. Sure, there is part of that. But what we're really resonating with, oh my God, you get it. When I say goodbye to Colorado and mention things that I went through of leaving New York City to pursue my dreams, and I don't even remember what I said in there, because I'm mixing.

Michelle (42:13.897)


Matt Allyn (42:35.57)

I said everything to my girlfriend and then I only said certain things on the post. But when I do share, you know, going through a divorce and the struggle I had through social media, but meeting my best friend, meeting her, meeting Natalie, you know, this beautiful woman who supports me. And like, that's where you're like, I get that. I've been through that. I have found a partner. I've been through breakups. And there was no big moment at the end of that reel.

Michelle (42:37.901)


Michelle (42:49.715)


Matt Allyn (43:05.29)

where I'm like, and now I'm moving to Oregon because I've been hired by, you know, or wouldn't do that, but I've been hired by this, you know, whatever dream job. Like that's not why I left. I'm just leaving. It's the next stage of my life, you know? But yeah, so there didn't have to be this big moment. And so understand that for one. And then the next part is what I started this podcast with, which is when you sit down and understand why you are the way that you are.

Michelle (43:05.933)

No, that was... Right, yeah.

Michelle (43:16.121)

Yeah, just because. Yeah. Yep.

Matt Allyn (43:34.23)

Why do you value those things? Right? You said before, like, I have no interest in climbing mountain, standing in the cold. You know, so what do you love and why do you love that? Where did it come from? You know, what I said earlier about loving the Packers and the Mets because my dad does. Well, that creates a really great bond between me and my dad where, you know, every Sunday we're texting about the Packer game and that brings us closer together. And, you know, even I've shared this before, but like, as I move further away from the East coast, it seems like I also like, am less interested in sports.

It just feels like kind of a waste of my time, to be honest, to spend a whole Sunday and have a fantasy football team, a listen to fantasy football podcast. And like, I don't play fantasy anymore because I'd rather spend my time, you know, on the spiritual podcast or on business. And like, and so that means that my dad are a little bit less connected because we connected a lot through sports, right? And so where I'm going with all this is like, when I get to reflect on that and notice like,

you know, why am I back a fan? Oh my God, how does that show up now? Oh my God, I'm less interested in especially the Mets and baseball is my sport growing up and my dad coached us in baseball and like, I don't think I watched the full Mets game last year. And I look at that and I go, why, what's happening? And how's that showing up in my life? Oh my God, my dad and I are like texting less and like, that's really sad. And oh, maybe it's an opportunity for me and my dad to connect on something else, which is hard because that's not what he would did with his dad's, but maybe he's an entrepreneur now too. And

Michelle (44:41.161)


Michelle (44:58.372)


Matt Allyn (45:00.618)

Like we can talk about more about entrepreneurship. Maybe we can talk about our feelings, you know? And now I'm just, you see how deep I'm going and uncovering more about myself? And if you wanna lead others, you have to lead yourself. If you wanna lead yourself, you have to know yourself. It's such a beautiful opportunity to sit down and understand yourself on a deeper level, right? We all wanna improve and make changes. My good friend says, you know, it's not that we need fixing, but we're working on coming back to wholeness. I wanna come back to our truest, most,

Michelle (45:20.296)

and then.

Matt Allyn (45:30.57)

Like if we were enlightened, you know, we wouldn't let hate comments bother us. We wouldn't let little chirps from our parents at Thanksgiving dinner bother us, right? And we're always working on coming back to whole. And I think the best way to do that is to uncover why, why does that thing bother you, right? And these are all these stories that we tell about ourselves and why we are and how we actively react. And so to answer your question inside of our membership growth, like that's a starting point. We uncover our deeper purpose, what we're here to do on this earth, why we're doing it.

And then we go make a piece of content on that and boldly make that statement to the world. And we see what happens. And we're probably wrong. We probably don't really know why we're here. So we get to iterate it six months from now. But by boldly making that statement on social media, it's way different than just journaling about it, right? You can journal all you want about how much, you know, how much, you know, my girlfriend bothers me. And when she does this, that doesn't make a lot of change until I go and say, hey, Natalie, I don't like when you do X, Y, Z.

And that's probably not the way I would say it, but where you get the point, the bigger things come from you. Yeah. I wouldn't say that like that, but when you go have those conversations, right. With your partner, it's not when you journal, standing for social media. When, when you're like, this is what I'm here to do. Does your following know that? You know, and it doesn't mean you just take all these statements on like, you know, the second amendment or like, if you hate Trump, like, no, stay in your lane. But like.

Michelle (46:32.211)

I was like, I'm trying lightly. I'm just kidding. Right, right.

Matt Allyn (46:58.07)

What is your real deeper truth? And so that's really where we start. And then it's like just encouraging people like, oh, you said something, sorry, I'm going long on this, but you said something earlier. You said something earlier that was, I had this breath work session and blah, blah. Like, I love this because like I do breath work too. And especially it's in-person, like powerful deep breath work sessions. And I get a download. I'm like, this is the path. And then what happens? You leave the breath work, you experience the world. And you're like, well, that's a little much.

Michelle (47:06.51)

No, you're good.

Michelle (47:21.326)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Matt Allyn (47:27.358)

I'm going to do 50% of that. Or like, I should reach out to Lewis Howes and get on the School of Greatness podcast. And then you're like, who am I to be doing that? He doesn't wanna hear my story. Look at all his guests. I'm not gonna do that. But you know, in Breathwork, you're so connected to yourself and to source, and that's your truth. And then we go in the world and we let it knock us down pegs and notches. And I wanna be here and this program is here to help you like, fuck no, we're not doing that. That download you got from Breathwork?

Michelle (47:45.577)

and then.

Michelle (47:50.581)


Matt Allyn (47:56.774)

Say that, you need to say that, right? And then of course, you know, there might be not a lot of safety there. So maybe, okay, maybe we do go down a few pegs, but not back to where you were, not back to baseline. Like I want you to keep challenging yourself. Let's push the edge a little bit. Take your power back, right? And you're letting strangers on the internet, take your power, because you think they're gonna judge you and oh no. And it's like, no, we gotta take our power back. And so we're doing that slowly one step out of a time. And then guess what? Your business grows from that, right? You...

Michelle (48:08.437)

take action.

Michelle (48:12.382)


Michelle (48:17.725)


Michelle (48:25.948)


Matt Allyn (48:26.294)

you attract online clients because like this is my person right here. You know, this is my leader. This is who I want taking me to that promised land, whatever that might be. And, um, and again, just like a best friend or partner, like, I don't know what it is, but I love you and that's what we're trying to accomplish. And, um, and it starts with that self discovery, the self love first. So you can find safety in yourself so that when you're safe in yourself, you can say whatever the hell you want and know that it doesn't matter. I know who I am, you know, and that's, that's what really matters.

Michelle (48:31.912)


Michelle (48:46.67)


Michelle (48:55.337)

Uh huh.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. And so hopefully for everybody that's listening, you've taken away a lot from this episode. There's so many key points that we could point out. Um, but really, truly moving into it's at the time of airing will be in the January of 2024. You're in a brand new year, right? Like take the time to really think about and just let go of some of those fears. Like

Go of like Matt saying, like let go of letting other people take your power back. Right? Like you get to be you go be you and you're you.

As Matt was saying, like you have a passion and when you're comfortable and you're chatting with other people or your best friends, like you just can't stop talking about it and you love it and you want to talk about it for hours. Look at this is going 49 minutes and it doesn't even feel like it, right? Like we're, you can talk about these things and your content gets to be this way too.

Right. And you get to pick how that shows up and what that looks like for you and your business. And there's people out there like Matt, who, if you need a little bit of guidance, it's not to say that you can do this on your own. I was talking with somebody yesterday actually, and she was like, I just feel like I failed because I've been trying to do it on my own and I'm not this and I'm not that. And the reality is, is like, you're not going to be an expert at all the things. That's why we all have our own individual, you know, slices of expertise, right? But you get,

Michelle (50:23.565)

And it's not to say that you need every single person, but you can have the help, right? Like find the people, find the people that are going to give you that guidance. Find the people that you resonate with. And if you're resonating with Matt right now and you're feeling like, wow, I really would love, I would love to feel good about content creation. I would love to feel very.

authentic. I would love to share my story. I just need a little bit of help. Reach out to Matt. If you're resonating with anything he's saying, like go have a conversation with him. Chat with him. See if it's a good fit. You know, check into his membership. Look into it. But don't feel like you have to do this alone either, right? Because there are pieces of this that are going to be scary. There are pieces of this. You're going to need your, you know, Timon and Pumba are

you know, to, to cheer you on and let that be that person, right? Like he might not sing you a kuna matata as he said, but you know, let find your people because there's always going to be the people out there that are going to hate on what you're doing. But most of the time, in all honesty, anything that I have found is that if you've got haters, that's just their own internal struggle too. You know, they're just dealing with their own stuff and they're just trying to find their way too. So just take it for what it is. And you don't have to even,

let it occupy one ounce of your time or energy and you just get to keep showing up. And at the end of the day, it's really all about what you wanna do. And so I'd love for you to connect with Matt. I'd love for you to go watch his Dear Colorado Instagram Reel. I'll definitely make sure that that's there. Check out his membership, connect with him and just see it and get on his newsletter. He sends a beautiful newsletter.

and really just connect and learn and let this be the year that you get to say, no, I'm going to define content my way, right? I'm not going to define it anybody else's way. I'm going to define my content journey my way. And that's, and you will see a massive difference in your business and let it be fun because content creation really can be fun. And it does, we do connect with people. We love to connect with humans. We love to absorb this information.

Michelle (52:29.905)

So find a way that feels fun for you and feels authentic to your audience and allows you to connect as humans. So anything else you wanna add, Matt, before we wrap up?

Matt Allyn (52:40.034)

There's probably like 40 things I would have added to that. But that was beautifully said. And yeah, I mean, we don't do anything alone. We don't come into this world alone. Our mother gives birth to us. You can imagine if Elon Musk said, I'm gonna build rocket ships by myself. Good fucking luck, right? And so, yeah, you know, and it just gets to be so fun. Like that's all we want, right? Is like to have some fun. And if you're gonna be an, not even if, I think all of us, we're gonna be entrepreneurs for...

a few decades, 20, 30, 40 years. This is a lifelong skill that you get to do. And if you hate marketing yourself now, like what is going to change? The way you're doing it is not working. I want you to love the process. I want it to be fun for you. I want you to uncover a way that feels effortless and exciting and that's possible for everyone. And it's just part of the journey. And you know, even my membership, I have a few different things maybe changing in the new year.

Um, but it's not a monthly membership. It's because just like a fitness plan, like you don't go to the gym three times and be like, this isn't working. It's like, no, you don't even know what you're doing yet. You haven't given enough time to be uncovered or like to, you know, to any of that stuff. Right. So same thing for this. It's like, if you're going to be an entrepreneur and market yourself for the next few decades, 20, 30, 40 years, you can take a little bit of time to learn how to actually do this and do it in a way that you love.

And so that's, yeah, that's what I love helping people with is uncovering those stories, learning how to tell them, um, and learning how to do it effectively on social media so that it's fun and you actually connect with people.

Michelle (54:21.489)

Yeah, absolutely. I love it. Thanks so much for being here, Matt. I will make sure that we have all of the links in the show notes and please, please go connect with Matt. And obviously you can tell he's a great podcast guest. So if you have a podcast, reach out to him, get him on your show and let him share his story with your audience as well. I appreciate you being here. Thanks so much.

Matt Allyn (54:40.322)

Thank you.

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